There’s not a lot to smize about in Reality Check: Inside America’s Next Top Model, the documentary that takes an H-2-T look at the reality sensation that dominated pop culture in the early aughts. Among the biggest revelations is the dissolution of the friendship between series host Tyra Banks and creative director/panel judge Jay Manuel. 

After watching the three-part docuseries, Manuel shared his thoughts on the project (“I love the fact that they were willing to celebrate the show and have an open, honest dialogue around it”), elaborated on his attempted exit from the series after Cycle 8, and whether he’d be up for participating in the reboot that Banks promises at the end of the documentary.

How did you get involved in Reality Check: Inside America’s Next Top Model?

Jay Manuel: I’ve been asked, especially since the pandemic, by major networks and major production companies, at least twice a year, “We want to do a documentary, but we need your participation.” And I know Nigel and Jay have, too, because they know they need us involved. And my answer was always no. 

When I had my first call with [executive producer] Jason Beekman, I heard him out, and he had an impassioned pitch. I loved his energy. And I said, “I’m going to really have to think about it, but if you want an answer today, it’s no.” He said he wanted a chance to speak with me again. So a few weeks later, we had a three-hour meeting, [and] I realized, “Okay this could be an honest conversation,” and then once I agreed, I believe Netflix was on board. 

When Netflix told us who was directing this, I was the geek in the room who said, “Wait, Mor Loushy and Daniel Sivan!” I was already a fan of their work. And I was aware that Manhunt was coming to Netflix.

One of the biggest revelations of the documentary is the falling-out between you and Tyra Banks after Cycle 8. How did it start?

Manuel: The reason I [wanted to leave the show] at that time was because all my options were up on my contract. And I wanted to step away in a positive way. I didn’t have any obligations to fulfill. Tyra and I had once made a pact. She said, “As things grow, let’s never talk through our people. Always, come to me,” which was very Tyra [being a] big sis. She does it to everyone on the show. 

So, I wrote her a very short, beautiful email that said, “Hey, I really appreciate it, and I am so grateful for this start, and I’m grateful that I could be there for you in realizing this dream.”

By then, I had procured a contract with E! as a correspondent, and I was hosting another show on Style Network. 

[That’s when] it became difficult, and I think Mor and Daniel do a great job of illustrating what happened. She just didn’t respond. And we would text or email multiple times a day or get on the phone multiple times a day, every day. So that was torture. And then I finally got the email. I remember getting the email, and my heart went into my throat when I saw her name come up. The email had no salutation — nothing. It just said, “I am disappointed.” That’s it. And then she never spoke to me again.

What made you return for Cycle 9?

Manuel: [The network] had three months to find a replacement. And so [they] started screen-testing people. 

I wish I brought this up in the documentary, but I didn’t. We were two-and-a-half weeks out when I was on that vacation that you see in the doc. And I was at a place where you don’t have phones in the room. Someone came in with a message, like, on paper. And I called my attorney, and he said, “Business Affairs called, and they’re asking, can you please come back for one cycle?” And I said, “Okay, well, I don’t know how to respond to this, because they’re shooting in two-and-a-half weeks.” And I had already promised to participate in another project. 

Their attorneys basically intimated that [they] couldn’t guarantee my work going forward with the parent company, and their other channels.

This is what’s so unfair with all the fans. They say, “You went back. You put yourself in that situation.” I was young and in my 30s, and my career trajectory was up. They put the fear of God in you, you know? So, then I was like, “Okay, well, I’ll have to go back and do one [more] cycle. I can get through one cycle.”

And I did. And that was a very traumatic decision. It was mental warfare, and it was the most difficult thing I’ve ever had to endure.

You returned for nine cycles after that. Did that dynamic continue, or did it warm up after that? 

Manuel: That’s a great and fair question. In a nutshell, I finished that cycle, and I was supposed to sit on the final judging panel, like I always did as the creative director. And they came to my room as I was getting ready. And they said, “You know, Tyra feels that if you’re no longer going to be part of the show, she needs to start phasing you out. So, we’re going to do the final panel with four people instead of five,” which is what you see on TV.  After I got home, I thought, “This is just how this ends. I’m never going to go back. I’m never going to speak to them. This was just an awful ending.”

Ultimately, they came back and said, “Look, we’ve continued to look for somebody for Cycle 10. We don’t feel that we can find someone. And we will promise you a healthy work environment. Would you come back?”

In that moment, I felt like I already understood the ramifications of saying no. I was so scared that if I said no, there was the threat that this huge parent company, which was like a behemoth, would then block me from any of their channels, and I would never work again. And I was now technically on four different channels doing four different shows. And I was afraid it would all go away.

So, that’s why I went back.

Listening to Tyra's explanation of firing Miss J, Nigel and you, did it change your perspective of the situation? 

Manuel: [The network] wanted a budget reduction. [Tyra and executive producer Ken Mok] weren't going to reduce their salaries and we were the top line. We were the fat on top of that budget. So, [Tyra] says in the documentary, "You know, to this day, I think they think that it was me." She was saying that so we heard her say that. She didn't say that for fans. She didn't say that for anybody else. But the unfortunate thing is we all have connections in that network that run deep. And I can tell you for a fact, she can spin her story every way she wants. That is not the story.

And it doesn't matter.  I don't regret any of it. I'm in such a healed place that I embrace all of it. What you're hearing from Nigel and myself in the documentary when I say “It's a slap across the face” and Nigel says “We're betrayed” — It's not that we were no longer part of the show. It's how they handled it —  the quote unquote leak to [New York Post's] Page Six. Yeah.

What has your relationship with Tyra been like since the series ended?

Manuel: You hear [Mor Loushy] in the documentary say [to Tyra], “Is this a good time to maybe talk about what happened between you and Jay?” Now, up until that point, she’s talked about me in a very broad way. And did you notice Tyra’s reaction? It’s the first moment she actually breaks out of [her] persona. She’s like, “No, no.” And you see her face. That’s a face that’s annoyed that Mor asked her something that she wasn’t supposed to. But kudos to Mor, who is doing her job as a journalist. And then she said, “No, no, no. I don’t want to do that here. I owe Jay. That’s a phone call for Jay. I owe him a call.”

Have you heard from her?

Manuel: We shot this a year ago. Do you think my phone rang? No. And I don’t think it’s going to. 

What do you think of the revelation at the end of the doc that Tyra would like to bring the show back for Cycle 25?

Manuel: Since the pandemic, [there have been] articles [about] the show getting rebooted. “I’m working on Cycle 25! I’m working on Cycle 25!” That was six years ago now. And then in the doc she says, “You have no idea what we have in store for 25.” I’m like, “Girl, here we go again.” So, I don’t know what she’s doing. 

Would you want to be a part of it? 

Manuel: I think I would be the last person they would call. And not because, you know, I couldn’t bring something to the table. I just think, especially when it comes to this documentary, my level of transparency and honesty isn’t going to sit well with [Tyra]. I don’t think she’d ask me to come back. I don’t think it’s something I have to worry about.

Reality Check: Inside America’s Next Top Model is streaming now on Netflix.